Yup, Its Up There! … Traditional cache 4/12/2012
In 2012 my caching buddy and I invited RN to go caching with us. We were mostly going earthcaching. At that time she did not have anyone to cache with. She took over, and unfortunately I did not stop her. By the end of the day, no earthcaches, but one more on her list. I walked part way, then returned to the vehicle to stop saying something I would regret. Len (my caching buddy) climbed the rock. RN remained at the bottom since she could not climb the rock. All three of us logged a find. She wrote a really caustic log (I see she changed it). I deleted my log and wrote to the CO. He gave permission to log. Ever since I have been called a cheater.
Since two of us did not climb the rock, the same brush paints us both. This vendetta began over a cache – Unbelievable!!!
Challenge Trail – Trail Magic … Challenge cache April 2014
04/10/2014 RT …
Here we go again! I have repeatedly asked you to kindly place my caches on your IGNORE list. I honestly do not understand why you choose to be unkind instead. It takes quite a bit of time and effort to get challenge caches developed and published. There are those, like me, who really enjoy challenge caches. ALL challenge caches do require you to find AND qualify in order to log a smiley. Mystery caches would certainly not be on the Obama plan, because they are not free hand-outs. Instead, they take individual responsibility to meet the requirements in order to log the cache.
04/16/2014 RN …
-Last one done, no FTF, but some interesting reading. Glad I qualify for all these challenges and will all lists soon.
-I do find it very interesting a couple of statements made by CO –
“ALL challenge caches do require you to find AND qualify in order to log a smiley.” & ” Instead, they take individual responsibility to meet the requirements in order to log the cache.” I think the BIG thing here is TO FIND – means to search for caches and not log caches that haven’t been earned….
-The second issue here is individual responsibility (& I am adding respect) – responsibility of being honest about geocaching & giving respect to all cache owners for their work & time spent to give us this fun & interesting sport.
04/17/2014 RT …
-Email received today
-“You need to remove LOC series from your narrative that you found this or I will add in my log that you made determination that shouldn’t have to find all 30 to qualify, and that you chose not to hike to all of them & lied when getting coin.
-Maybe, your attitude towards caching, meaning your dishonesty and cheating, is why Dave w/o id hates you. I know that is why I have absolutely no respect for you and feel you have disgraced your caching talent….
-I lived with a cheat & liar for 25 years and realize that these types of people, including you, have a far lower standard of ethics than the rest of the population.
-Sad, cause, even though I thought your earthcaches & puzzles were too intense, I did enjoy visiting them and learning the why & how. Now, when I find your caches, I feel disgust.
-Before, you say to add to ignore list – that is not going to happen – if caches are placed in our areas, we are going to find them. Oh, I could just log them like you do, but that is not my or any other cachers way of enjoying this game available to us.
-And can’t believe that you use Len to place and maintain your caches and don’t even acknowledge him on cache page for this. Very self-centered of you….
-I could ignore your behavior, have tried, but feel by doing this I approve of this type of behavior and I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT.
-So sorry for you that you feel cheating & dishonesty is an accepted part of geocaching.”
Explanation of LOC series. LN (lan46) and I did all but two caches together. I was going to bypass the non-trackable coin. He said we were a team and he would get the last two for both of us. Again accused of cheating. If you believe you should get all the caches on a trail, then you should do so for all the trails. I have never accused her of cheating, but have certainly witnessed examples of it. Again … cheating??? LOC CO is aware of the help I received on two of the caches, and he approved of me getting the coin. Geocaching is supposed to be fun … not a forum for a vendetta.
MY RESPONSE
-Unkindness (direct or veiled) is disrespectful to both giver and receiver.
-Geocaching is meant to be fun for all. Criticism is unnecessary and simply reflects unfavorably on the giver.
-Emotionally abusive emails are not in compliance with geocaching guidelines and could be reported.
-Perhaps you should monitor your own caches as closely as you seem to monitor mine. You will be surprised to find instances of the same things you accuse me of.
-Len was always asked if he wanted to be listed as co-owner on caches he helps to maintain.
-LOC CO is aware of the help I received on two of the caches.
-Dave w/o id attended one of my events and we had a delightful chat concerning our difference in perspectives.
-“So sorry for you that you feel cheating & dishonesty is an accepted part of geocaching.”
“I know that is why I have absolutely no respect for you and feel you have disgraced your caching talent….”
-Look within – I have personally witnessed many times you have cheated and disgraced geocaching…
-Completely changing EC page several times after publication and still incorrect thus misleading cachers
-Getting law enforcement involved in an attempt to get one of my earthcaches archived hence leaving a negative impression
-Local leader harassed and no longer offering coin trails
-Trespassing resulting in EC being archived
-Blatantly dishonest
-Continuing to post inflammatory notes on others’ cache pages when specifically told not to
-Harassing other players via logs, etc.
04/27/2014 Post by another cacher …
-To complete a cache and then flame the owner says more about YOUR character than the cache owner that your lambasting.
-Stop doing smileys that dont make you smile!
-Life is too short and we only travel through once. To have that much anger and hatred about anything is not healthy. Take a deep breath and enjoy life. Please dont ruin the hobby for everyone else.
-Thanks rainbowtree for all the caches you put out and maintain for the WHOLE caching community to enjoy. Know that there are many more of us that DO enjoy them. I have done many of your caches and enjoyed them all so far. I havent found any yet that I dont care for but if I do, I will hit the ignore feature with a smile on my face and wont think any less of you as a person or cache owner. Cant wait to free up some time and make the long trip down to your area for some great caching! Hope to see you soon! – BillyB
-“Throughout life people will make you mad, disrespect you and treat you bad. Let God deal with the things they do, cause hate in your heart will consume you too. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.” Martin Luther King Jr
Reported cyber bullying (logs/messages/emails). First time since 2012 have deleted log. Simply asked to log found with no comments for this cache.
ARCHIVED https://coord.info/ … GLYGJ2GG / GLYGJ0TJ / GLYGJD9T / GLYGJFVM / GLYGNYB5 / GLYGNYB6 / GLYGJ2GG … GLYAYPNQ / GLYGHE19 / GLYAYPNQ / GLYGHFMM / GLYGHGCT / GLYGHZGJ / GLYGJ28Y / GLYGJ3KA / GLYGJCE8 / GLYGJD4B / GLYGJFCA / GLYGNXZB … Appears no amount of deletions will result in respect for COs request.
MCHG – Kane Four Sons … Traditional cache January 2019
The trail was done correctly first time to meet the goals. …
ANFVB was aware of the progress based on visits and published caches. Nothing was said until cacher complaints.
1. Caches placed at historical sites when possible.
2. History/Pictures placed on cache pages when there were proximity/placement issues, or nothing significant to see due to “progress”. This allowed a thorough overview of McKean County History.
3. ANF is Trail Central, so caches were placed on almost a dozen trails throughout the county.
4. A variety of types allowed for cachers to have choices. For example, traditional cachers could earn their coin doing only traditional caches.
5. Over a hundred caches were placed in our county to give cachers a tour of the county with an abundance of caches to find.
6. Len and I placed all the caches together.
MORE EMAILS REGARDING MCHG TRAIL … APRIL 2019
RN complaints to ANF Visitor Bureau – Of note is that these complaints were unfounded and simply gave a very negative view of our sport to the director.
4 Sons – more excuses for not doing it the way ANFVB wanted it…or it wouldn’t have to be redone..duh!!And 1 complaint would not have done much…so multiple complaints & you chose not to follow ANFVB guidelines for a historical trail…and they didnt like your plans…like 100 caches so you didn’t have to maintain…personal info, cache at your house..
And didn’t u say you visited here & cache was gone..really!! lol!!
These are the poorest historical cache pages I have ever seen… You agreed to show us MCKean County history, not make it all about you… and unrelated puzzles and were you not supposed to have caches approved before submitting????
You need to be responsible, not make excuses…
And I will be reporting to ANFVB everytime a cache is not maintained.. Hard to respect someone who does not show respect to other cachers..
Diana
Funny note on Swedish cache, GC84507… And we do know who wrote that, now don’t we!!!!! And everyone else, will know it as well…. You chose to do an inadequate job on the MCHG, you claiming I or others not kind to you, shows you are in need of help…. In stead of accepting responsibility and the help that was offered, but chose to ignore…shows how self centered you are….not interested in cachers, but in glory you think you deserve… the same as on your Earthcaches… If you do not want to place caches, or yea…you don’t place them, do you…. nor do you go out and get coords….you treat Len like a slave and make him do it or get them off google earth, or waymarkiing…sound familiar….noticed coords that were 150 ft. off had one number different that waymarking for Seneca sign….
You act like a wounded animal, where in fact you want people to hold you up on a pedestal….If you cannot place caches, or hunt caches….don‘t cache…. Am I being mean…no worse than you are when you make remarks on cache pages… and by the way…I heard another complaint today…and many when I was at an event in Erie…. You could have had help, am sure locals would have been happy to be part of the MCHG, but maybe, not with you.. That can’t be helped…. you have made your own reputation…
How much is enough? Yes, the trail was done correctly (https://coord.info/GC837PK). However, due to complaints 80+ caches were removed from the history trail. ANFVB understandably just wants to keep the public happy. All the geoart caches were changed. All the MCHG caches were transferred to two COs. Even my earthcaches were targeted. If you want the truth about the many accusations, visit this cache and ask me directly.
Just a few comments from cachers wondering what happened to all the trail caches.
“Just wanted to let you that there are people who enjoy your caches! I can not image how much effort you have spent on these new caches only to have to go thru this *****. If I do not like someone or their style of caches, the simple solution is to ignore the listings. There is no rule that you have to find every cache! I hope that you are not so discouraged that these caches disappear.
Relax for the next few days and enjoy Easter, maybe things will be brighter by Monday.”
“Wow I just read the log from RN about the 4 sons cache and susies on the swedish cache. What the hell is wrong with people just so you know I think you have a heart of gold and do a great job of promoting caching.”
“Over the years we have seen numerous caches you have placed and countless signatures you have signed. I ask, have faith and realize you are appreciated for your work. Please don’t let a few detractors stop you. And if you do, thank you for your placements over the years.”
Nothing … Mystery cache November 2020
11/23/20 RT …
FTF with lan46. Not sure which was the most challenging – getting the coordinates or getting the cache. A favorite point for the double challenge. An unpleasant relationship with another cacher began in 2012 with Yup, Its Up There! Hoping this cache is the end of the unpleasantness. Thank you for the cache and quite the adventure.
11/25/20 …
RT – Reading above log, looks like the unpleasantness will continue ad infinitum.
RN – “With reading previous log, seems she’s learned that being at cache much more satisfying & fun than not being at cache…
RT – ” Why do you keep falsely accusing me of not going to the caches I log. Look within before you cast stones. You admitted not going to some of the caches you logged. Went to get a screen shot of that admission … It was deleted!
RT – Regarding the 2012 cache Yup, Its Up There – Only LN climbed the rock, but all three of us claimed a find. According to you I “cheated” – then so did you.
Additional untruthful statements seem to keep popping up on other caches as well. One example out of many – GC8MNWE.
RN – “… caching partner, logging/claiming ftf..- Nah! Is this ethical…especiallly, when LN/lan46 did the hiking & RT did the sitting…. “.
LN – “We both visited this cache and every cache that this cache owner has.”
RT – So, LN logging FTF on a few RT caches is unethical, but RN logging FTF on all NT caches is ethical. ???
Based on logs/posts, several of us feel cacher is the most negative, untruthful, ungrateful, and disrespectful person we have the displeasure of knowing!
NOTE … Looks like CO is also “in the line of fire”. Really do not understand posting a note complaining about the cache page even after cache was found and logged. Purpose ??? The difficulty rating of 5 was definitely too high when puzzle was solved so quickly.
Rock Folds Along the RVT … EarthCache June 2021
06/10/2021 RT …
-Answers sent and verification picture posted.
-When asked to change caustic logs ongoing since 2012, was informed “It is my log and I can write whatever I want.” Also, this CO likes to point out all she feels is amiss (mostly fabricated) on other player’s cache pages. Consequently, with this log am honoring her choices by writing a complete and honest assessment of this EarthCache.
- -CO repeatedly points out following protocol. What happened to the original cache page? Since the earthcache as originally published was invalid, should have been archived and a new/accurate one submitted. Completely changing a cache page AFTER approved/published is a big NO NO and even grounds for suspension.
- -CO repeatedly rants about minor changes in other player’s cache pages. Yet this cache page underwent major changes. Proof of monitoring/complaining available upon request.
- -Have never seen a personal agenda, complete with other player’s names, posted on an earthcache. This CO is obsessed with logging FTFs. Proof of untruthful logging and even changing log (added FTF) after accepted available upon request.
- -Had difficulty answering the questions, so contacted a geologist. Sent 8 pics taken all along the outcrop.
” I cannot see any kind of folds in any of the strata.”
So, if a geologist cannot see any visible folds, how in the heck can we answer her questions?! - -Not every outcrop should be an earthcache. This is a good example. Original – No synclines or anticlines. Revised – No folds. Looks like this CO should contact a geologist before submitting/changing an earthcache with false information.
The only positive attribute is it was a pleasant walk along a nice trail.
I have not contacted HQ or the local reviewer. After my log, she has done nothing to correct the situation and has misled all who visits this EarthEache. Reviewers put a lot of effort into maintaining quality. Something should be done about her, or at the very least her dishonesty regarding this EarthCache.
LAW ENFORCEMENT
RN got law enforcement involved in one of her attempts to get an EC archived. Explained to both Ranger and Police that permission was given. Two consequences from that endeavor – waste of their time and a negative perception of geocaching.
RESTRICTIONS/SUSPENSION
The above examples are only a small sampling of abuse via logs / messages / emails. When she and her caching partner were doing the cache on my property, partner chatted and awarded a favorite point in her log. RN said nothing to me, but posted caustic statements in her log.
Due to the prolonged bullying of RN and my pleas to HQ to stop it, only earned me a “reputation”, and EarthCache development restrictions followed by suspension forever. The hundreds of favorite points and positive logs, have not made any difference.
RN, however, has been free to continue her negative antics including the following … completely changing an EarthCache page after publication (which is a big No No), trespassing causing an EarthCache to be archived, harassing two local leaders resulting in a negative view of geocaching, harassing other players in her logs, etc. etc.
Thank you to all the cachers who log respectfully and honestly.